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 Post subject: 24v deep cycle solar system needs urgent cleaning
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:15 pm 
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Hi any/everybody,
I am a firm believer in zero-point, but not very technical when it comes to electronics!
I have the following challenge:
We run a 24v solar pack, that converts to 110v. We have in total 44 6v deep cycle batteries (Brand: Rolls, Model: S-460) which are about 6 years old. The problem is that they do not hold their charge very well anymore and so the batteries get drained fast!

I am living on an almost deserted island in Panama so no Radio Shack or anything around, but in the closed town, which is 2 hours away, I can get some electronic supplies! A good friend of mine made me a small Radiant Oscillator, but kind of burned out (the sodded wires burnt loose) immediately and he had to go back so here is where I am and this is my question:
Who can please help me with
a) A shopping list that will get me what I need to have a sturdy system made for 24v.
b) A (non-)technical overview - step-by-step instructions on how to put the shopping list together and have a sturdy machine that can take some heat and don;t burn up.
My idea is with this I will go to a Panamanian Technician and will try to explain what to put where...believe me that this is going to be the real challenge:-)

Well, any help will b greatly appreciated and hopefully result in one small victory over our fossil fuel consumption society :lol:

Thanx
Jappie


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 Post subject: Re: 24v deep cycle solar system needs urgent cleaning
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:16 pm 
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Oh..I forgot to mention that the 6v batteries are hooked up in series of 4 so they work as a 24v system....
Jappie


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 Post subject: Re: 24v deep cycle solar system needs urgent cleaning
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:13 am 
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The Bedini SSG is the simplest device to use but because your batteries are 460Ah you will need a big one to charge the batteries in a reasonable time. It also takes longer to recover a battery so you need to take this into consideration. So with a 460Ah battery at a C20 charge rate (charge in 20 hours) would require a charger at 23A, that is big. It may be easier to buy one of the kits available here, http://www.r-charge.com/10-Pole-Monopole-Kit.html but they are not cheap. :shock:

If you have the time to let them recover slowly you can use a smaller device and the parts list is here http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory: ... :Materials and the cost of this will be in the 50 to 200 USD range for all new parts depending upon local pricing

There is lots of information about how to do it here http://peswiki.com/energy/Directory:Bedini_SG Once you have built it I can show you how to alter it to dramatically improve the performance :mrgreen: . These devices work on a DC supply of 6 to 24v and will charge batteries from 2 to 100v. Of course if you choose the smaller device all you have to do is add more coil circuits to convert it to a bigger one as you need to.

If you want to build a cheaper device, just to learn how to do it, start with the Imhotep fan that you can read about on this forum. Alternatively you can use the Imhotep radiant oscillator. Both these devices can be built for almost nothing using scavenged parts and multiple units can be run in parallel for larger batteries.

Please continue to post what you do on this thread so that we can follow your progress.


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 Post subject: Re: 24v deep cycle solar system needs urgent cleaning
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:18 pm 
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Hi and thank you for your email and help!!
All the technical information looks a bit much for me and I simply cannot free up the time right now to dedicate myself to this, how much I would love .
But I was thinking, since all my batteries are 6v, can I also buy a cheaper solution (http://www.r-charge.com/RC-2A12-4-12V-B ... _p_88.html) and hook my batteries in series of 12v or just even individually at 6v for an other model? What would be the best model to buy, with a small budget, in your opinion?

When you ask if I have time to have them recover slowly, what is slow??...as everything in life is relative , right!

Thanks again and hope to hear back soon!

Jappie


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 Post subject: Re: 24v deep cycle solar system needs urgent cleaning
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:45 am 
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The Ideal charge rate for a battery is C20, this means charge it over 20 hours. if you have a 460 Ah battery divide 460 by 20 and you get 23 amps. this means that you can charge it most effectively at 23 amps. at 10 amps it would take just over twice as long to charge assuming all the capacity was used up in both cases.

The charger you gave a link to IS a Bedini charger and will recover capacity in your batteries but it is a little too small for 460Ah batteries, to charge such a battery that is fully discharged would take over 200 hours and to recover capacity would take much longer.

I don't know if this charger could be used in parallel to your normal charging system to slowly recover your batteries over time, you would have to contact them to ask this. I'm sure they would be happy to advise on the best options for you in their range.

I would build a SSG from Bedini's plans and see how it worked and upgrade the power output as needed by adding coil circuits but I have the time to do that. The truth is they are quite easy to do with just a few pieces of wood, a drill, a saw, a soldering iron and the parts from the list.

Another option is the imhotep radiant oscillator, you could parallel say 10 or more of these to get the charge rate you require and build them from parts in a scrap yard but I think the noise of all the relays would drive you crazy and you may get radio interference from them too. They are very good at recovering batteries.

Recovery time takes longer than charging but on a battery that has reduced capacity but still charges to its normal voltage it wont be very long before you notice a difference however I cannot tell you how long it will take.


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 Post subject: Re: 24v deep cycle solar system needs urgent cleaning
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:18 am 
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The upgraded IRO can handle 460ah quite easily.
I had 472ah severely OVERCHARGING @ 60w input (<18v!!!)
(IRO) and my regular charger barely induced 13v
at a 110w input power. I added extra coils in parallel
and used an FWBR. I believe it passed some CC (conventional current)
to add to the charge rate but minimal draw. These measurements are
valid, but erring on the LOW side, because I was using a laptop power
supply so I could compare wattage draw. That adds in more under-unity
(laptop PS is maybe 90% efficient TOPS) but I wanted results NO ONE
could dispute. Measured with a Kill-A-Watt meter for both chargers.
I believe i could have charged 2 to 4 times the battery AH size easily.
All for 60w input!!! The setup could be test for OU operation by shunting
the output into a cap bank and powering an inverter. I need both. And
more Kill-A-Watts, LOL!

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H.D.E. {hyper-dimensional electrician}


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 Post subject: Re: 24v deep cycle solar system needs urgent cleaning
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:36 am 
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http://free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter6.pdf

see pages 6-21 and 6-22 for IRO upgrades.
I hooked up my added coils in parallel, but
series would actually work better IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: 24v deep cycle solar system needs urgent cleaning
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:54 am 
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I have two battery banks 48V@350AH X 2 (parallel of 12v series Flood Lead Acid and the other bank is 12v @100ah X 24 (series of 280VDC NiMH).
1. Will an upgraded IRO revive these packs ?
2. Do I have to split the packs into single 12V batteries or can I charge the total pack (i.e. 48/350 and 280/100) ?
3. Much of the discussions talk about charging but not discharging in the revival process. Did I miss something ? Is this a separate process (e.g. drain to 10V using light bulb) ?
4. When does the charger know to stop charging ?

Sorry for all the questions. I am keen to try this out.


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 Post subject: Re: 24v deep cycle solar system needs urgent cleaning
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:16 am 
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1) I have not worked with NiMH batteries so I don't know but it is worth a try.

2) I would split the packs and have a seperate diode going to each cell.

3) With lead acid about six cycles does the trick but the chemistry is different here so I don't know what effect it will have. remember not to over discharge or discharge too fast.

4) The IRO and the Fan don't know when to stop charging so you will have to make that decision.


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 Post subject: Re: 24v deep cycle solar system needs urgent cleaning
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:00 am 
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Always follow 1/20 rule. max 1 amp for 20ah battery for charging and discharging.

And I will avoid using single diode charging. I always use full bridge. Single diode charging can worsen battery condition.

The battery usually in different health condition. It is better to charge individually. SO each battery can reach full condition at different time.

You must avoid overcharging.


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