Imhotep's Lab Interactive FAQ

Hey all,

If you have not see the video, go see it at
http://d1190995.domaincentral.com.au/page8.html
Title: "This is how to make an Alkaline Battery as well as showing you the effects of a conditioned battery"

Where did this video come from? what url?
Is the more information to be found somewhere on how to convert an old car battery to Alkaline?

You have to condition the lead .. in acid first, How is that done?
Where's a link to a video to explain the correct way to test all the cells?
How bad is too bad?

I have 3 old car batteries now...

Let's get started...

Vortex? There is a lot going on, here and there. That video came from the, I believe, Yahoo monopole group. I think it was Rick Friedrich who made it in John's lab.

Converting the battery to alkaline is easier than most people think. The better the battery the easier to do though. I have a couple old batteries that are too far gone but I tried them anyway and failed. If a battery sits too long or has been discharged too low it is really hard to recover, IMO.

Oh! In case you didn't know it, there is a Yahoo group here: Link; http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/batteryconversions/

As a matter of fact, you could probably learn more there than from me. I've got two I'm charging right now, a 105AH and an 80AH. The 105 is on a straight charger and the 80 is on Imhotep's fan motor. I've got another in the wings, an 85AH that I'm scrubbing before I load it and charge it.

Good luck
Warren
..

I did want to add, as everyone is gathering the scrap batteries. the 1st thing you want to do, and this does not matter if its an actual deep cycle car battery or a normal lead acid battery or the little ups battery, or scooter battery. the most important thing to remember is Most of them have(even if they are sealed) have valves and can be gotten into. If your very careful with proper caution (battery acid can burn your skin,cloth,ect) you need to inspect each one of the cells visually and if alot of them are water based, if you use pure distilled water and top them off and then use the radiant charger first, for a number of days trying to bring them up to their proper voltage, even if its a fluffy charge or looses voltage fast. Continue to charge and discharge with the energizers then put a very low current trickle charge of a amp or half amp, and make sure they dont get gassy, repeat that process over and over you can get some usable voltage back out of alot of batteries. it does take some time, especially on batteries that are really damaged. But the most important thing is to not let the water run to low, it will distort the plates and make them completely unfixable if it heats them up on a conventional charger. And again please exercise all cautions around batteries and the acid inside and kid away from all children as battery acid can be very dangerous. Happy experimenting. As we learn more about batteries we will be posting more in the future. Again please feel free to make us your home post any projects you are working on as when we all work together we can move mountains.

Yes, I had found that yahoo group and it was a bit helpful.
It might be helpful for others, good thing you posted the link here.

Converting the battery might be easy, but it could be easier to
get wrong, than to get right.

I obtained a McCormick Alum bottle containing only 1.9 oz
which I purchased today for $2.79.

I tested a pinch of McCormick Alum in water with
baking soda and this solution erupted in bubbles.
This means this "McCormick Alum" is an acid and not an alkinline ...Correct?
What's in McCormick Alum that reacts with the baking soda
if it is not an acid?
If it is an acid then "McCormick Alum" is not
an Alum by definition?

The term of alum refers to various isomorphous double sulfates composed of trivalent metals and univalent
metals, especially aluminum potassium sulfate, AlK(SO4)2·12H2O, a white, crystalline compound. Alums
have the general formula M2SO4·MIII2(SO4)3·24H2O, where M is one of alkali metals (potassium, sodium,
rubidium, caesium, silver. thallium or ammonium), and MIII denotes one of the trivalent cation (e.g.,
aluminum, chromium, iron, manganese, cobalt, or titanium). In aqueous solution, alums show all the
chemical properties that their components show separately. These salts are used in water purification,
leather tanning, coagulation agent for rubber latex, setting dyes (mordant), fireproofing textiles, modifying
concrete, baking powder, preparation of lakes, clarifying of turbid liquids and as astringents.

* Potassium aluminum sulfate (KAl(SO4)2·12H2O, CAS RN: 7784-24-9 (Dodecahydrate), 10043-67-1
(Anhydrous))
* Sodium aluminum sulfate (NaAl(SO4)2·12H2O, CAS RN: 10102-71-3)
* Ammonium aluminum sulfate (NH4Al(SO4)2·12H2O, CAS RN: 7784-25-0 (Anhydrous), 7784-26-1
(Dodecahydrate))
* Chromium potassium sulfate (KCr(SO4)2·12H2O, CAS RN: 10141-00-1 (Anhydrous), 7788-99-0
(Dodecahydrate))

"The Video" uses "Durkee 3.75 Oz Granulated Alum".
I called the Durkee Home Use Hotline TOLL-FREE at 1-800-247-5251
http://www.durkee.com/homeuse/contact-us.php
I was told their Alum is potassium aluminum sulfate.

Can baking soda be used to test that any Alum is not an acid?
If a Durkee Alum was obtained would a baking soda test
not bubble, if indeed it is potassium aluminum sulfate?

potassium aluminum sulfate - Alum is available at most drug stores.
It is used as an astringent to shrink mucus membranes.

So, if indeed potassium aluminum sulfate is the Alum we want then
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1 ... lum_1.html
Photographers' Formulary Potassium Alum - 1 Lb. for $6.95
Special order 2-4 weeks for delivery.

Here is the link to the video. I went to the forum and searched for rickf* and followed my nose. Snk-snk
Link; http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9959&hl=en

The questions you are asking don't make any sense to me. I used the McCormick on a battery that wasn't any good to begin with so it failed. I have since found a place called the "Amish Country Store" located in Branson Missouri. It is cheap stuff there and the have an website. Buy it by the pound. I bought ten pounds because I plan on doing a LOT of batteries..............a lot of batteries!

I suggest you build/do the project and THEN ask questions. There will be tons of questions once you get going. And......don't be afraid to make mistakes. We ALL make mistakes. That is how WE learned what we know.

Warren
..

I agree with just start the project and ask questions later.
But let me try to clarify and try again to make some sense ...

The word Alum is ambiguous and tells us nothing.
There are at least a couple dozen different Alums (just guessing, maybe more)
The word Alum used with the word alkaline brings on further
confusion to this project without more information being known.

The instruction use Alum is like getting directions to
follow "the highway" but are not told what highway you are to follow.

If you just "start the project", dump the battery acid
and replace it with an acid solution, what's the point?

That *might* be the wrong point of the exercise.
I say might because I'm not sure what this solution should contain.
I know what words have been spoken, but know not what those
words meant to the people that spoke them (John Bendini or others)

Not knowing only promotes others to preform the same
needlessly incorrect actions.
When the question can be asked and an answer obtained,
then the question should be asked.
We have access to Peter Lindemann and I'm hoping he
can remove the ambiguous nature of being told to use
Alum.

I'm trying to get clarification of what is meant by the phase
"alkaline solution" or "convert acid to alkaline".
Alum by definition contains a alkali metal, but most of these
Alums from those I've looked at, create an acid solution and
not an alkaline solution.

Is the word alkaline use in reference to the alkali metal, which is only
a component of the Alum (making an acid solution)
or is the intent really to use an alkaline solution?

If I'm suppose to be using an Alum (acid solution) I would like
to know what components making up the Alum where selected
and why. Or that it just does not matter what Alum is used and why.

If I'm using an acid solution, why am I not using battery acid again?
If there's a reason, that reason most be a component of the Alum,
of which, there are over a couple dozen Alums at least. Which
component is the one we want to use?

If I'm going from Point A to Point B, I'd like to know that I'm on
Point A and not Point C before I start.

Some of these "failures" people are having might be due to starting
at Point C and not Point A.

Here are the components that can be in an Alum:
one from this list: aluminum, chromium, iron, manganese, cobalt, or titanium
and
one from this list: potassium, sodium, rubidium, caesium, silver. thallium or ammonium
That makes 42 (maybe) possible different Alums we could "Try".
Are you going to try all 42 ?

That's where I at and I'm sticking to it!!!

Because Batteries can be dangerous with dealing with the acid I agree that you should do a bit of research before jumping in headfirst. i do believe the Bedini researchers at Energetic forums would most likely know a bit more about this topic than we do at this time because as of this time we are all on the same level of learning this method of "converting' batteries. Me and imhotep have not as of yet converted a battery so I dont feel i could provide anyone with any useful information, but your question does intrigue me and like i said i would post in the renewable research section of energetic to get the best response.

I decided to do a quick search in energetic to see if anyone has already did this project and i found this thread : http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1739-making-batteries-safer.html it contains alot of useful information and step by step how to's I hope this helps

Hello all? Sorry for the delay in bringing y'all an update. So? Where do I start. I have a feeling this is going to be a long, long post.

First off, "alum": Alum is used to make pickles. Taste a pickle and see if it is acid or alkaline. I suspect your answer will be acid. Mine was. But alum is short for aluminum so we have a conflict going on here.....it seems. I get mine here, Link; http://www.amishcountrystoreonline.com/spices.htm These folk have some real inexpensive products that you can buy in bulk. I think I paid $2.49/Lb for mine and bought ten pounds. Which brings us to the next section.

I have three alum batteries working right now. One is on the Imhotep fan motor/charger, one is on a regular charger, and one is something I thought I'd try; an alum-salt battery. The batteries I'm using are huge car batteries, 80Ah or better. I'm trying to get a feel for how these batteries charge. They are slow to take a charge, especially from a wal-wart! After two weeks, the fan motor one is now above 11.25V and started at less than 5V. I suspect there is a lot of de-sulphation taking place on this one.

The one on the wal-wart started out on a regular battery charger but got really hot after a couple of hours so I shut that charger down and went to the wal-wart. This battery is 105Ah and a beast to charge regularly. It started off at 6+V and now holds charge at 8V. It rests most of the time but will take a charge over time. It really needs to be on a Bedini or Imhotep charger to really work out great.

The third *alum* battery is something I had read about and wanted to try. The recipe is 5:2 Salt:Alum. It comes from a really old book which said that the charge would last for MONTHS and was simple to recharge. Well, DOH! The book was dated 1866 when they didn't have battery chargers! But I thought I'd put a charger on it anyway. Well, after a couple hours the smell of bleach was making my eyes water. Snk-snk! It makes perfect sense too. Bleach is nothing more than salt with hydrogen added. Charging a battery is electrolysis which releases hydrogen from the anode(?). The salt captures the hydrogen. Anyway, that battery, a 225Ah garden tractor battery, is holding a charge at 9V +/- for the last four days resting. It would be interesting to see what an alternative charger would do with this battery. (Incidentally, recharging this battery is nothing more than replacing the liquid mixture.)

I haven't posted on the Energetic forum yet, primarily because there aren't any *results* to report so far. I will though as soon as I have some kind of breakthrough.

I for got to mention that the Bedini/Imhotep charger was charging BOTH batteries today. The primary battery went from 12.15V to 12.63V and the secondary battery went from 11.34V to 11.57V. To me that is AMAZING.

Enough said for this time.
Warren
..

Excllent! Would love to see some pics and it would be totally awesome if you could take some of your knowledge and help others out. Have you thought of a HOW-TO vid on making a alum battery. If you do let me know and Ill include it in the tutorial section of the website. Great job!