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 Post subject: Battery Failure
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:10 am 
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Has any of you had a battery fail when you have been charging it with radiant energy?

I have.

When charging Gel type batteries eventually they have all failed and usually it didn't take that long. I believe that this is because some of the "Negative" electricity got through.

Get a copy of energy from the vacuum and study parts 7 and 10.

John Bedini states that negative electricity (radiant) causes gel batteries to crystallize and fail, this has been my experience.

Other battery failures i cannot say for sure was caused by the radiant and probably just a "normal" failure. If we all put together our experience we may be able to discover a pattern.

I have had three lead acid batteries start to leak on the positive terminal allowing a small amount of acid to make that terminal damp and cause it to corrode. One of these batteries has now another problem. The plates are starting to go soft and crumble, this is my oldest (9 years) and most used battery. It still charges and the plate colour is normal but its capacity is reducing. All these batteries had a normal service life (3 to 5 years) on a motorcycle before i started using radiant energy to charge them.


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 Post subject: Re: Battery Failure
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:29 am 
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Yes, it is not suitable for SLA. I also experience reduced capacity on SLA.

From renaissance charger RC-2A12 manual:
Quote:
5) Sealed Lead Acid Batteries (Gel Cells)
Although there batteries have inherent advantages of being unspillable, because the water inside these batteries cannot be replenished, the batteries eventually "dry out". When this happens, the batteries life is over. These batteris are particularly susceptible to being destroyed prematruely by overcharging which cause excessive offgassing (water loss). In many cases, however, there batteries are rendered useless by under-charging, and, in these cases, conventional charging techniques are ineffective in charging them. The RenaissanceTM charger, although not designed for these batteries, can be used to charge them, breaking through the sulfation layers where other chargers cannot, amazingly restoring capacity and extending battery life. Concinued charging, however, with the RenaissanceTM Charger is not recommended for these batteries because of the offgassing that occurs as a side effect of this process. charger is not designed for use with sealed (non refillable) or maintenance free lead-acid batteries. Although it maybe advantageous to use this charger at times on heavily sulfated batteries of this type, consistent charging with this charger may cause excessive venting (offgassing), shortening the life of these batteries.


Excessive gassing may also indeed accelerate terminal degradation.


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 Post subject: Re: Battery Failure
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:49 am 
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Speaking of sealed lead acid or SLA's, take a look at this photo.- http://cid-32a91e5c9dcce17f.skydrive.li ... ery003.JPG

It was quite easy to carefully pry the top cover off and underneath are rubber plugs that act as sealing valves. The cells in that battery were completely dry and battery would not hold charge past 12.12 volts conventional charge or bedini so I added some Magnesium sulfate dissolved in warm water, just enough to cover the plates and stuff in there.

Its on the conventional charger now to see where it goes to and it seems to be taking charge well at one amp. I'll post results later.

I had taken the top off a smaller one that would not even hold 6 volts and the inside of a couple of cells were falling apart so it's no good, however the one in the photo looks brand new inside so here's hoping.

cheers all

Ps. I only use my batteries in the upright orientation and I do not recommend anyone do this, though if it is done I would not use them upside down or on their side. Also just being able to veiw the inside of the battery may be useful to detect unusable batteries.


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 Post subject: Re: Battery Failure
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:56 pm 
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Let me know how it works, I have never tried this


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 Post subject: Re: Battery Failure
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:40 pm 
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Hi mbrown

Well some success it seems, so far so good,(battery was at 12.1 volts to start with) after a couple of hours on a conventional charger at just under an amp the 100 % full light was glowing on the charger the battery was at 14.5 volts while still charging then went down to 12.79 volts after sitting for a while, I done about a 2 amp load test with a 25 watt bulb only for about a minute and the battery held at 12.35 volts while under load then went back up to 12.59 volts.

I am now discharging it slowly for a bit before I charge it with the SSG. I am going to push this battery hard to find out what happens as it was almost useless before.

We may have a big time difference as I am in Australia, so if I am slow to answer posts this is why.

I read about the magnesium sulfate on e-how webpage http://www.ehow.com/how_4853344_recondi ... ttery.html
it says to drill holes if you have a Sealed battery but there is no need. I'm not sure if he is referring to gel cell or not though.


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 Post subject: Re: Battery Failure
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:49 pm 
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I live in the Philippines so not that far away, just sent the wife to the local pharmacy to get some Epsom salts because i have some stubborn batteries that i am trying to bring back hehe

No i don't think it would work on a gel cell


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 Post subject: Re: Battery Failure
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:00 pm 
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I left 6 good motorcycle batteries for six months just to see if i could bring then back with a fan or a radiant oscillator. they were very sulphated.

The bad news is after a month of charging i have not been able to bring them back. they are still full of white crystals although the plates have returned to a more normal color.

Maybe if i had a more powerful device like John Bedini's i might be able to do it. Time to try the epsom salts.


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 Post subject: Re: Battery Failure
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:16 pm 
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It gets very difficult for me to keep all the batteries around here charged, my car doesn't get driven much and so it's battery was very weak but still working for a few cranks, one night on my IRO and a top up from the conventional charger and it spins the motor like a new battery now, it's about 4 years old and a cheapie too, so I got lucky with that one so far.

Good luck with your batteries, maybe you could try only a couple at first to see if it works for them.

Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: Battery Failure
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:16 am 
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farmhand wrote:
It was quite easy to carefully pry the top cover off and underneath are rubber plugs that act as sealing valves. The cells in that battery were completely dry and battery would not hold charge past 12.12 volts conventional charge or bedini so I added some Magnesium sulfate dissolved in warm water, just enough to cover the plates and stuff in there.
I done that (although not with that sulfate) and already charging the battery for 2 moths now. It seems to hold charge better than my other cell. It has low voltage now though.

The cap popup when I charge it a bit long. I once try charging with direct DC, and it get hot fast.


mbrownn wrote:
I left 6 good motorcycle batteries for six months just to see if i could bring then back with a fan or a radiant oscillator. they were very sulphated.
The problem with bad battery is uneven charging. My motorcycle lead acid battery have gone bad too, and I notice that while charging with DC or radiant, only 4 cell produce bubble out of six. When the batetry almost full, plenty of bubble produced at the good cell. The I decide to charge each cell by submerging metal.

The white cell react immediately and turn black. little accident happen when I do this the first time. The connection to the metal get loose and produce spark. it produce loud boom... I am more carefull later...

I found that my battery capacity increase after each charge with radiant. It seems easier to start the motor starter after every charge.

The problem I have is with my adaptor that unable to supply enough current to my radiant circuit. So it won't supply enough current to the battery. I will try it next with my sting oscillator. With 300ma at 12V input charge my water filled SLA with 80mA at 11.8V. raising confusingly real fast from 10.8 in an hour..... Should work good for my lead acid battery too.


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 Post subject: Re: Battery Failure
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:47 am 
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I think the sulphate shorts the cell and prevents the radiant from recovering it, placing contacts directly onto the plates may be effective but somewhat dangerous as you found out.

When you charge with radiant battery capacity does indeed improve, I have experienced up to 10% improvement. This may be because all sulphation has gone and the battery is as good or even slightly better than new. Another reason explained by John Bedini is the grain structure of the plates is much finer giving a slight increase in surface area. This effect is only temporary if you return to normal charging.

You want only enough current to make the system work, pushing more current into a fan will cause the coils to work more like a transformer and much of the benefits of radiant charging will be lost. with a relay it is just wasted energy causing the coil to heat up and burn the contacts of the relay. With the solid state device do not know for sure what the result would be other than heat building up in the system.

Use the potential not the amps


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