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 Post subject: Re: Ethanol
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:22 am 
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sunrise07 wrote:
I have to disagree with mbrownn that ethanol produces carbon monoxide. Ethanol is 100% clean energy.
C2H5OH(l) + 3 O2(g) =Heat=> 2 CO2(g) + 3 H2O(g)

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_b ... z21gsLxa4j

co2 is needed for plants to grow so it's a good thing.
Notice the word complete combustion.

Combustion in an engine is not always perfect.

Don't miss previous biodiesel reply.


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 Post subject: Re: Ethanol
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:00 am 
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I am updating:

http://gigaom.com/cleantech/diy-ethanol ... hanol-kit/
ethyl alcohol or ethanol, it turns out, requires yeast(added) + sugar....to make
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/c ... 058678.htm
read time magazine articles regularly. One 2012 dated article I have read, says how ethanol production will not lower down oil production costs due to ethanol production being used to drill for more oil. Nice comment to add in addition to that news article, sucahyo.


Last edited by sunrise07 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ethanol
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:07 am 
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sucahyo wrote:
sunrise07 wrote:
I have to disagree with mbrownn that ethanol produces carbon monoxide. Ethanol is 100% clean energy.
C2H5OH(l) + 3 O2(g) =Heat=> 2 CO2(g) + 3 H2O(g)
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_b ... z21gsLxa4j
co2 is needed for plants to grow so it's a good thing.
Notice the word complete combustion.
Combustion in an engine is not always perfect.
Don't miss previous biodiesel reply.


Again, Sorry, but I will have to disagree with you. Anything is possible if you can design the generator using the complete combustion of even ethanol. If you learn about derivatives from calculus, you should see a philosophical connect with this to derivative formulas.

The derivative of a position function is the velocity function. Velocitiy function applies with velocity functions.
"special functions" of complete combustion should logically have a corresponding "special function" for it that works so that it works the same similar level as a partial combustion (gasoline incomplete combustion).

Quantum physics even works on this concept.

Combustion in an engine is not always perfect, you say? Then find either a perfect engine just for this, as well as a better method. That is my take on this, sucahyo.


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 Post subject: Re: Ethanol
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:39 am 
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sunrise07 wrote:

Again, Sorry, but I will have to disagree with you. Anything is possible if you can design the generator using the complete combustion of even ethanol. If you learn about derivatives from calculus, you should see a philosophical connect with this to derivative formulas.

The derivative of a position function is the velocity function. Velocitiy function applies with velocity functions.
"special functions" of complete combustion should logically have a corresponding "special function" for it that works so that it works the same similar level as a partial combustion (gasoline incomplete combustion).

Quantum physics even works on this concept.

Combustion in an engine is not always perfect, you say? Then find either a perfect engine just for this, as well as a better method. That is my take on this, sucahyo.
I think you should search the current combustion engine efficiency. What I find are:

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/102spring20 ... 20main.htm
This means that for a stock engine, only 20% of the power in fuel combustion is effective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency
Modern gasoline engines have a maximum thermal efficiency of about 25% to 30% when used to power a car. In other words, even when the engine is operating at its point of maximum thermal efficiency, of the total heat energy released by the gasoline consumed, about 70-75% is rejected as heat without being turned into useful work, i.e. turning the crankshaft.

http://jagadees.wordpress.com/2007/10/2 ... fficiency/
For typical US driving, the resultant overall efficiency of the engine is about 20%. Note, your pedal is not really a gas pedal, it is an air pedal! Add the tranny and real axle mechanical friction losses (or the transaxle friction losses), loss due to convert reciprocal movement of piston to rotary motion for the wheel and the drain of a few essential accessories, and you arrive at a 15% fuel-to-wheel efficiency for the typical auto driven in the US.
When we buy 1 litter petrol/Diesel, its 80-85% is burned for nothing.



Emission testing will also reveal efficiency. We can just compare the amount of CO2 with other C variance. Less CO2 means less efficient burning. But measurement should be done with short muffler type, right after the manifold, because muffler is designed to complete the reaction.


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 Post subject: Re: Ethanol
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:39 pm 
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I can reuse that heat then, for my greenhouse farm. No big deal right?


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 Post subject: update ethanol 8.2.12
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:40 pm 
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where to sell ethanol - Google Search https://www.google.com/webhp?rlz=1C1TSN ... 41&bih=527
Biofuels | Energy Sources | Chevron http://www.chevron.com/deliveringenergy ... bioethanol
DIY Ethanol: Startup E-Fuel to Sell Ethanol Kit — Cleantech News and Analysis http://gigaom.com/cleantech/diy-ethanol ... hanol-kit/
Ethanol fuel in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fu ... ted_States
Georgia ethanol plant sold, at taxpayers' loss  | ajc.com http://www.ajc.com/business/georgia-eth ... 89567.html


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 Post subject: Re: Ethanol
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:02 pm 
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sucahyo is accurate, ethanol and biodiesel's have their place but they are somewhat less of an answer than the mainstream would have us believe, they are far from pollution free and come with ethical consequences too.


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 Post subject: Re: Ethanol
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:25 am 
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mbrownn wrote:
sucahyo is accurate, ethanol and biodiesel's have their place but they are somewhat less of an answer than the mainstream would have us believe, they are far from pollution free and come with ethical consequences too.


What about innovative sophisticated smart programmable computer operated engines?? Couldn't they have potential to turn ethanol more efficient?


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 Post subject: Re: Ethanol
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:29 am 
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I still think creating on demand NH3 would be a better option. Bruteforce "powerme" style water mister with ionized air input. Stanley meyer style, adding HHO output to ionized air.


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 Post subject: Re: Ethanol
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:03 am 
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sunrise07 wrote:
mbrownn wrote:
sucahyo is accurate, ethanol and biodiesel's have their place but they are somewhat less of an answer than the mainstream would have us believe, they are far from pollution free and come with ethical consequences too.


What about innovative sophisticated smart programmable computer operated engines?? Couldn't they have potential to turn ethanol more efficient?


I think sucahyo has covered the problem with the internal combustion enging, even if sophisticated control systems are used that could give a 10% improvement, it is only 10% of 20% or 2% overall. That is not a big difference.

Recovery of the heat is the way to improve these engines as that is where most of the power is, a Stirling engine connected to the exhaust could provide as much power as the internal combustion engine it is attached to doubling the power we get from the fuel but nobody makes them.


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