Imhotep's Lab Interactive FAQ

I was fooling around connecting a coil to different parts of the circuit and came across a method of increasing the charge rate of my Bedini fan.

i used a coil from an electric drill and connected it in parallel with one of the motor coils, you know when you have the right one because the charge voltage increases slightly.

the power consumption increases too but one problem with the fan is a slow charge rate so an increase in output is a good thing

I just connected a car ignition coil to the bedini fan.

The motor screeched to a halt but continued to screech. i checked the scope and i had still got spikes so i tuned the pot for the highest charge rate and it was a lot higher than the fan alone.

after about 2 mins smoke began to rise out of the motor. test stopped to avoid burning out another fan.

Interesting

Placing a coil in parallel with the other winding, seems to have improved the overheating problem a little. This coil is the one removed from a 220v electric drill. The motor changed pitch a little and the charge voltage increased a little (about 0.04v) so i readjusted the pot again for maximum charge rate.

it is still overheating so i removed the rotor, now there are no magnets but the circuit is still resonating, the transistor is getting hot but it is still possible to hold your finger on it. To assist with cooling i have placed another unmodified fan nearby.

if i disconnect the power the resonance stops and will not start again till i replace the rotor and spin it. Then i can remove the rotor again. the circuit performs better and with a higher charge rate with the rotor removed.

I will try using two ignition coils in parallel with the two motor coils in the next few days and update this post if it works.

the charge rate is now greater with a 3" fan running at 12v than a heavy duty 5" fan running at 36v

With 2 ignition coils i burned out the transistor.
with 1 ignition coil, running the circuit at 24v i had the best output but again burned out the transistor.

With more research on the internet i have found that this has been done before. Multiple coils can be pulsed with the fan to increase the output but to avoid burning the transistor separate recovery circuits must be used, all pulsed by the same motor fan.

Hi mbrownn, it gets a bit lonely on this forum, doesn't it? I know - Been there!

Most users working in this area are experimenting with the Imhotep Lite idea and making good progress, you may want to visit?
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable ... #post30945

Personally, i think the current rating on the fan determines the charging output.
What are they on the two motors you have?

I can't believe you are not getting best results with the 24v motor!

Do you have a potentiometer before the Base supply?

I find this is critical to getting the best output with different batteries.
A 100k pot is generally recommended.

Good Luck!
~~~~~~~

i dont worry about the lonelyness, not a problem.

Ive experimented with the oscillator lite, and a few variants of my own. I believe using an ignition coil is a good way forward. I used a mechanical switch to pulse the coil, then a relay. My next experiment is with a much bigger coil and i will post the results when i have done it if it works.

i started with the Imhotep bedini fan because i didn't have much resources to build a schoolgirl motor in the true Bedini fashion (I live in the 3rd world), then experimented attaching things in different places and got interesting results.

The best result was attaching a coil in parallel with one of the coils on the fan. I have now got two units running both with ignition coils attached as i have said. One unit is with a modified 5" computer cooling fan rated at 12v 0.15amps. The other is a heavy duty 5" fan also rated at 12v but now 0.51amps.
The smaller fan will stand 24v input before it starts to burn the larger will stand up to 48v. if both fans are run at 12v with no additional ignition coil the larger unit puts a much higher output, i assume this is in proportion to the input amps.
If I then add the ignition coil the smaller unit gives more output than the larger one despite having a smaller input.
If i now run both units on 24v the output is increased, i assume in proportion with the voltage increase, but after a few minutes the transistor on the larger unit burns out despite the lower output.
Both units start to resonate and give a higher output when this happens

The lower input unit has a higher output than the higher input unit.... Interesting

I think this is because the larger fan coil is drawing more power than smaller unit and therefore is able to burn out the transistor but also the output is related to the inductance of the coil and placing the two coils in parallel is causing them to fight each other (they have different resonant frequencies) thus allowing more of the radiant out with the smaller fan because it is fighting less.

When i get some more parts i will build separate recovery circuits for the ignition coils and should have more output with both units but i suspect i wont be able to get them to resonate

I use a 500 ohm wire wound pot, ordinary pots start to burn. 500 ohms seems to work well for me giving greatest output at around 130 to 150 ohms. the scope readings are weird during resonance i will post the pics on my scope reading post when i find my download cable.

Ive recovered 5 motorcycle batteries to varying degrees so far, output is too slow to recover a car battery in a reasonable time till i build a unit with higher output. A motorcycle battery with 1 cell down has taken about 2 weeks, slightly low voltage batteries recovered quicker, im still working on a bad battery that was down to 6.2 volts.

Mick

Hi Mick.

You've been tinkering around with your toys I see. Placing anything in parallel to the same terminals (in this case the postive of run battery and the collector of the transistor) can have some interesting effects, but you should note what is occuring here. Remember that Electricity (well conventional electricity anyway) with take the path of least resistance to return to source/equalise. The paralleling of any coil to the same terminals as the original motor windings offers a different path for energy to flow. If your motor coil inside the fan is say 10 ohms and your ignition coils primary is say, 1 ohm, its easy to see how the fan slows down or stalls. There is a much easier path for it to travel down, and the high resistance of the fans coils becomes undesirable in these conditions. So you are basically piggy backing off the trigger signal and using it to switch your separate coil. Thats what some of use have done with the CFL lighting that Imhotep first did with a relay. The increase in amp draw is due to this lower resistance pathway, and will increase charging somewhat. But your mechanical will most likely suffer as you have noted. Of course, if your resistances are much closer this is a different story, and remember there are ways to connect multiple windings/coils to multiple transistors and have them all triggered off the same trigger signal, but separated @ the switches

The lack of resources can make things difficult, but if you are looking in the right places you can score some free wire. Microwaves and most power tools will have some inside, but they can be trickey to remove. You will find a thicker gauge does indeed draw more, but the charging will increase as well. If you can only get thinner gauges wind as many lengths onto the same coil as you can, and all of them can be hooked up in parallel, or better still each strand can have its own transistor. The best part about multiple strands is you dont need large lengths for it to be effective. Multiple strands of AWG 23 @ 100ft each is what is specified in other groups. Multiple strands in parallel doesnt even hold a candle to multiple strands with multiple transistors

You have a good way of explaining what i am thinking about my tinkering and appreciate your input on my posts, keep giving your input please.

Your second point is the direction I am going now so that i can charge/recover batteries faster. using ignition coils increases output but the magnetic energy is wasted so ill have to build coils on a motor so that this energy can be at least partially recovered.

I needed to increase the output of my fans so that i can recover batteries faster, this is so i can finance my project. Living in the third world there is a mountain of dead and damaged lead acid batteries, people cannot afford to buy new ones so a recovered unit is a viable option. I have only had two batteries come close to new condition so far but that is a start.

Over unity is the goal. i have got some kind of over unity in a battery but overall it isn't over unity. let me explain

if i measure the input to the battery (volts x amps x time) and then compare it to what i can draw out of it, i get more out than in. Over unity???. we need to remember what Bedini told us on this, we do not have the instruments to measure this kind of energy.

If i measure the input to the fan and compare it to what comes out, i put a lot more in than i get out. I have not been able to measure the mechanical power of the fan yet, which would improve the overall efficiency.

when i measure the input to the fan and compare it to what i can draw from the battery i have charged, i have a COP of less than 1

I am putting together a plan to build a motor that will be more efficient than the fan as well as a much bigger output. My experiments are all done with this in mind. Labor is much cheaper here so its not so expensive to build a prototype once i have the materials. i will build it in a way that mechanical energy from the motor can be recovered but this is a long term project.

All the clues are in John Bedini's published work, all we have to do is understand it and apply it. I'm still a green novice in this respect so i look forward to years of tinkering hehehe

An interesting experiment you can do Mick is this. Run your fan/monopole as normal and place the negative lead of your multimeter on the negative of the run battery and your positive lead on the positive of the charge battery. You are now reading the sum voltage of both the batteries, abiet a small loss depending on the resistance of your coil and voltage drop over the diode. Nevertheless, once your wheel/fan is up to speed you will notice that not alot of energy is lost. Sometimes, if built properly, you can watch voltage steadily climb . Helps if you're multimeter can read to two decimal places @ 20+ volts.

Measuring the output of the charged battery in joules however is the most scientific way to prove any sort of unity/overunity effect (I dont like the word overunity) and it is usually marginal, but you must also factor in the mechanical, which, especially in the fans, can be useful/significant. Also remember that the input amperage as shown on your meter isnt totally correct either, it is an average. Remember, we are dealing in pulses here. A more accurate way is to measure MPPM and go from there. The SG groups explain this part of the testing quite well.

Using the ignition coil you must remember one thing. The secondary is directly connected to the primary, and while there is high resistance on the secondary, this direct connection can be undesireable for certain configurations.

In regards to a motor I think you should ask yourself what it is exactly you want from a larger motor. It sounds to me like an energizer could be a handy tool to have in your part of the world, with alot of batteries lying around. Any if you choose to you can make one that is quite powerful and will recover/charge much larger batteries, along with some mechanical, alot faster than your fan ever will.

But if you are primarily after torque and a motor function then there are other designs that may be more profitable to pursue. I wouldnt bother with building a motor with the intent of attaching a conventional generator/alternator to it, in the hope of short circuiting one into the other, Im sure youve seen that none of these machines run in a constant closed loop. So saying, there is merit in harnessing/capturing the rotating magnetic field, you just have to be clever about how you do it. So an unconventional generator/alternator attached/integrated isnt out of the question either.

The main problem you may face is simply construction and access to machining services and parts if you chose this route. Trust me, you want to make sure that the rotor is secure, balanced and safe. The window motor I recently built I now have to tear apart, the thing is just an animal. I endeavoured to make it as balanced and true as possible, but it all goes to hell over 1000rpm. Awesome machine, but just not safe in its present configuration. Ive learnt a few things since and if I build it again its going to be a machined rotor and thicker shaft with solid bearings and frame work. And multi coil too. But thats a whole different kettle of fish.

Hi everyone. This is my first post. I have been reading for a couple of weeks now and have built one SSG circuit with an Imhotep fan conversion. Thanks to everyone for sharing.

I will give you what I have found and would be happy with any and all feedback.

Original fan, Power logic PL80S12M, 12v, three wire, .13 amp.
Coils resistance after separation, 62.3 and 63.7 ohms.

At first it would not run on a 9v battery, after using a 12v source it ran but slow, I then bypassed the fixed resistor in the trigger circuit and it sped up and became more flexible as to source voltage. It seemed to need a jump-start.

I spent quite a bit of time trying to charge an old 9v with a new one and eventually gave up. I switched to a power supply for testing and was able to charge the 9v that I had run down trying to charge the old one.

Since turning the pot up increased the efficiency I added more resistors. I have gone from a trigger resistance of 1k, which gave me power consumption of 58 mA @ 12.1v and power output 1.0mA @ 9v and 1920 RPM fan speed to a trigger resistance of 4.7k, power consumption of 20 mA @ 12.1v, power output of 4.5 to 5.7mA @ 9v and 960 RPM. This output is hard to gauge because it is constantly moving. My meter has an “analog” scale, which ranges from 2.5 to 10mA sort of rhythmically.

I played the trigger resistors again with a capacitor “dead ended” (no charge battery) on the output and found that with a .22mf (old automotive condenser) I could achieve 75v @ 1k, 103v @ 2k, 125v @ 3k and 127, @ 4.7k. I also had a 47mf 220v and a 330mf 250v and found that they would both charge up to 108v.

It would be nice to have someone chime in here and let me know if I am in the ballpark on efficiency with this system and let me know if there are other variables that I should be playing with in this part of the circuit.

With the 47mf across the output with the battery in place it seemed to bring the charge battery voltage up considerably quicker (a tenth of a volt in 5 min. as opposed to a tenth in 30 min).

I have rigged up a little load tester and am going to run some tests on mA hour in vs. mA hour out. Want to follow the alkaline 9v test through to some conclusion before I move on to lead acid.

I have read here and at Energetic. There are a lot of threads and a lot of theoretical discussion. Has anyone boiled down the relative efficiencies (in current designs) of fan motors vs. monopole SSG vs solid state or mechanical oscillators? Would it be valuable to measure output as peak voltage of spike and frequency? Is the spike on an oscilloscope the same voltage as the maximum charge of a capacitor of some value? Can the frequency of the spike be measured with a digital frequency meter (frequency setting on a VOM)? Sorry for all the questions. I’m trying to think of ways that people with a variety of test equipment can make good comparisons of their results.

Thanks again to everyone