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 Post subject: Re: The lockridge device
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:16 am 
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hiwater wrote:
I have mine set up just like you have explained. You can take the end cap off and it will start and spin it acts like a magnetic bearing. It centers it self.
I would not have expected that. Very interesting.

hiwater wrote:
The problem right now is trying to collect the spike off the brushes.----------------Youre saying to use brushe No. 1 and 2 as the power in brushes. OK are they both on at the same time or alternately. Because A-D coils and 3-2 brushes would have to be set up independently------from the other side. Just so each side would rotate the same direction.
Yes, I can see that this is a problem. When the recovery brushes make contact, the amount actually on the segment is small, so when the inductive kickback fires through the brush is may burn the contact area.

Maybe the answer is to move the recovery brushes closer to the power brushes. This will mean that the capacitor will get a pre charge from the supply via the armature. Not sure how we would wire that without spending more time on it, as in the self running model the capacitor is the supply.

Hmmmmm?????

As I used razor blades as brushes, I did notice burning, but I thought that was because I used razor blades. It is obvious now that there was more to it.


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 Post subject: Re: The lockridge device
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Hmmmmmm Yes I guess so. Ive tried moving the pickup brushes closer. Wont work. Ive moved them so they touch also. Still wont work. When they are touching you do get some charge going in to the capacitor. Very little, but still a lot of arcing. The motor slows way down when it trying to charge the capacitor. There is a slight amount of charge tha is accumulated when they are touching.

My thoughts This may go against what you believe. But here goes.-----If you look at the picture you posted. The pole shoes that you can see. Look at the mounting hole it off center. What does this tell us. It tells me that one side of the pole shoe is longer on one side than the other. The lip I am talking about.---------If it were an even number of armature slots this wont happen. Because the pole shoe edges match the edged of the armature slots. this pretty much international standard. Now if it were an armature with an odd number of slots. that's what you would have to do to get the pole shoes to fit right. Usually odd numbers have more sots and the same number of bars which make it run faster. So you can cut your in put power way down because it running from the load side. So it wouldn't take much for this to self sustain itself.


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 Post subject: Re: The lockridge device
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Continued.-----With an odd number of slots you can disconnect one winding and come out with an even number to run on. Which would be 1 pulse per revolution.

Looking at the picture you posted. Brushes numbered 1-3. Can only be in that position if the armature is as the one they showed. Because the armature is wound with one set of windings for each side both in one slot groove. Then as it cross the armature to the other side on each side of the shaft there is 2 slots in between the windings. Which would put these 2 brushes in that position. This would take them off the neutral position and cause a kickback spark using DC.
SOME more experimenting has to be done on this yet.
Because there is some interference from having both 1-3 brushes like I have them now.

OK put your thinking cap Mbrownn. thanks Hiwater.


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 Post subject: Re: The lockridge device
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:28 am 
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If 180 degrees is thru center of a circle. 180 deg north 180 deg south. 90 degrees east-90 degrees west. Divides it in 4ths. Then the main case slot would be at 180 degrees north. That leaves the slot in the bottom of the case at about 190-195 degrees. Taking up more of the circumference on the A-D side. Which puts the main power brush close to the bottom slot or over on pole shoe c. That brush is number 2. If it rotates ccw. Leaving no. 4 as the pickup brush.

Was working just with the A-D coil side today to try figure somethings out. Looks like no2 and 4 brush are just about 180 degrees from each other. No 2 brush can be moved to top dead center of coil d and still spins fine either way. with quite a lot of speed.
With the brushes in place now there isn't much room to put in no. 3 brush. So will have to refine it tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: The lockridge device
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:54 am 
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hiwater wrote:
Hmmmmmm Yes I guess so. Ive tried moving the pickup brushes closer. Wont work. Ive moved them so they touch also. Still wont work. When they are touching you do get some charge going in to the capacitor. Very little, but still a lot of arcing. The motor slows way down when it trying to charge the capacitor. There is a slight amount of charge tha is accumulated when they are touching.
One thing to note about the brushes, when you first put them in they may not seat down on the commutator correctly and may need to bed in so to speak. This would rsult in the brushes not being timed correctly.

hiwater wrote:
My thoughts This may go against what you believe. But here goes.-----If you look at the picture you posted. The pole shoes that you can see. Look at the mounting hole it off center. What does this tell us. It tells me that one side of the pole shoe is longer on one side than the other. The lip I am talking about.---------If it were an even number of armature slots this wont happen. Because the pole shoe edges match the edged of the armature slots. this pretty much international standard. Now if it were an armature with an odd number of slots. that's what you would have to do to get the pole shoes to fit right. Usually odd numbers have more sots and the same number of bars which make it run faster. So you can cut your in put power way down because it running from the load side. So it wouldn't take much for this to self sustain itself.
Coils C and D plus I expect coil B to be as you describe. Its probably because it is easier to cut down one side than both to make narrower shoes.

As for the relationship between the number of slots on the armature and edges of the pole shoes, that is something I have no idea about so I cant confirm or deny anything on that.

hiwater wrote:
Looking at the picture you posted. Brushes numbered 1-3. Can only be in that position if the armature is as the one they showed. Because the armature is wound with one set of windings for each side both in one slot groove. Then as it cross the armature to the other side on each side of the shaft there is 2 slots in between the windings. Which would put these 2 brushes in that position. This would take them off the neutral position and cause a kickback spark using DC.
SOME more experimenting has to be done on this yet.
Because there is some interference from having both 1-3 brushes like I have them now.
Im not sure what you mean but thinking out loud is good.

hiwater wrote:
If 180 degrees is thru center of a circle. 180 deg north 180 deg south. 90 degrees east-90 degrees west. Divides it in 4ths. Then the main case slot would be at 180 degrees north. That leaves the slot in the bottom of the case at about 190-195 degrees. Taking up more of the circumference on the A-D side. Which puts the main power brush close to the bottom slot or over on pole shoe c. That brush is number 2. If it rotates ccw. Leaving no. 4 as the pickup brush.
No more of the circumference is on the BC side. This is to get maximum distance between B and C allowing them to remain either side of the powered coil on the armature.


hiwater wrote:
Was working just with the A-D coil side today to try figure somethings out. Looks like no2 and 4 brush are just about 180 degrees from each other. No 2 brush can be moved to top dead center of coil d and still spins fine either way. with quite a lot of speed.
With the brushes in place now there isn't much room to put in no. 3 brush. So will have to refine it tomorrow.
Brushes 1 and 2 are set at 180 degrees as are brushes 3 and 4


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 Post subject: Re: The lockridge device
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:12 pm 
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What I was trying to say on the armature winding was a lap winding and how it was wound> Two windings (one for each side of the armature) go in one slot on one side and skips 2 slots on the other side. So the ground brush is between those two slots on the neutral position. Moving it either way designates the direction of rotation.

That why I was questioning the purpose of Number 1 brush. If it was going to interfere with the direction of armature travel .


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 Post subject: Re: The lockridge device
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:26 pm 
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From the testing I have done on the simple winding you have described. With the commutator connections at 90 degrees.

With coil A in as generator coil. There isn't much for voltage coming out of that coil. It is 17-20 volts. It kind of follows the input voltage which is 25-30 at higher speed. Low speed close to the same.

You can kind of set the back spike to be more or less depending where you move the brushes. Against rotation more arcing. High speed waaaaaaaaaaaay too much. Still trying to figure out how to collect that spike off the brushes.


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 Post subject: Re: The lockridge device
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:41 pm 
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Input voltage is 25 to 30 and output voltage is 17 to 20?

It would be interesting to see a scope shot then we could work out what is happening.

How many turns on the armature and the powered field coil and how many on the generator coil?

Motor torque is a function of current so speed is also.

Voltage is effected by speed and number of turns as well as strength of field.

The next thing is the sweep angle as I call it, in other words where the armature is when it becomes energised, then measuring how far it turns before it becomes de-energised. This is the hardest part to sort as it is pretty much fixed by the segments on the armature and the width of the brush. What i would like to know is how wide your commutator segments are and how wide the brush is.

Good work


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 Post subject: Re: The lockridge device
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:24 pm 
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Eleven turns on the armature, 4 turns on the powered field coil. Don't know for sure on the gen coil. Probably close to a 100 or over. 3/16 of an inch wide on the comm segments. A little less for the brushes. So they just fit without overlapping.

If I don't use the rewound armature and use a stock one 45 volts in and 75 volts out on A coil. That one has 9 wraps per winding armature.

Im thinking a lot is lost in the radiant event from the brushes. That why the voltage is so low. where the stock armature hass all the windings contributing to the spike. Which you could collect with the auxillary brushes.

I would venture to say that it rotates about 45 degrees before it disconnects and reengages.. According to the width of the pole shoes and the number of armature slots they are aligned with.


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 Post subject: Re: The lockridge device
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:53 am 
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hiwater wrote:
Eleven turns on the armature, 4 turns on the powered field coil. Don't know for sure on the gen coil. Probably close to a 100 or over.
OK so we should have a strong magnetic field, i would expect more volts than you are getting.


hiwater wrote:
3/16 of an inch wide on the comm segments. A little less for the brushes. So they just fit without overlapping.

If I don't use the rewound armature and use a stock one 45 volts in and 75 volts out on A coil. That one has 9 wraps per winding armature.
This could be one reason. you have effectively a sweep angle that is greater than the size of the shoe that the generator coil is on, so the voltage will drop off as the armature turns past the shoe. With a stock armature there are many coils passing the shoe so the average ripple will be higher. It could also be the case that a reverse voltage is being applied for part of the duration cancelling what you have.

hiwater wrote:
Im thinking a lot is lost in the radiant event from the brushes. That why the voltage is so low. where the stock armature hass all the windings contributing to the spike. Which you could collect with the auxillary brushes.
Exactly. Transformer effects from the armature which does not have recovery brushes will also affect the output.

hiwater wrote:
I would venture to say that it rotates about 45 degrees before it disconnects and reengages.. According to the width of the pole shoes and the number of armature slots they are aligned with.
See above

While you are having some difficulty, dont worry as this helps us understand. Clearly this is indicating why only one generator was suitable without major modification.


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