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 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:47 pm 
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1. I have 4 bateries. All of them were purchased for this Bcircuit. In other words they are new. It is possible I damged 2 of them. That being the two which I drained to 4V and 8.5 respectively. The other 2ies I kept above 11.5V so they are still undamaged. I have placed them all on charge with conventional charging, and I will test to see if there are any dead cells and Voltage drop. They are on trickle charge, so I will only know in a day or two.

2. It is possible (in fact likely ) that it is due to the long term charging they have been inundated with. (Several charges of 14 to 18 hours each)

3. The ways I have tried to find the sweet spot are varied. A brief explanation will make it clearer.
a. I used my multimeter to read DC Voltage off the charging pos and neg wires. When changing the pot, I got Voltages from 35V down to 8V. This is not a 'true' reading since as we know the charge is actually AC, but the fluctuation is minimal. I double checked this method by charging 4 AA batteries in series and used the reading of the Voltage variance on these batteries as my measurement for 'fasted charging'. Initially I chose to limit the DC Voltage reading to 18V or less for fear of damaging the batteries.(Both the AA's and the Lead Acid Batteries).
b. I varied the Pot until I got the loudest singing from the coils. This method so far seems the most efficient, yet the singing varies as the source battery drops in voltage.
c. I used the Neon Globe as my indicator. With various altering reasoning. For example, one method was to slowly increase the spike (reduce fan speed) until the globe glow increases from a weak flicker to a steady 'solid' glow. In this method, an easily recognisable difference occurs between no glow/weak flicker to a sudden dramatic increase in glow and frequency of the flicker that the globe reaches an almost solid on state. Another method was to alter the Pot until I got the brightest glow. These methods were all done with the battery charging wires disconnected. I also noticed that I get zero glow if my source battery is less than 13.2V

4. I will soon know if I have 2 dry batteries. However the two that remained above 11.5V were not charged much at all.

5. I am not familiar 'sulphated batteries'. In other words what causes the sulphor and what can be done to desulphate them...?


Also notice that I spoke of two seperate situations in the previous post. The other situation (Where I get a max Multimeter reading of 3.5V) was done with no battery on the charging side, and the measurement of 3.5 was done in two ways on the charging side. 1. with a tester on the wires. 2. with a tester on 4 x AA batteries in series being charged by the cranking of the fan. In the second case, the batteries were at 4.4V (of 4x1.2=4.8) and did not climb at all.

I Tried again with the cranking method with the cap on the source wires. I did it this time with a 16V 1000mf cap. The V read by tester only reached a max of 2.7V. I will try it next with a higher Voltage Cap, and also with same voltage caps of higher farads. (ummm In other words 'stronger' caps)

I also did try using two 12V batteries in series as the source supply, and I get a really bright glow on the neon globe. I was wary to try to charge a 12V with that since I feared 'frying' the charging battery. Perhaps I should see how it goes using 24V to charge 24V.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:46 am 
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I think you are using the right methods to tune your fan but You cannot take voltage or ampere readings without the charging battery being connected, except with a scope. Digital meters get confused by the pulsed dc because of the refresh rate required by the chips in them and it is DC and not AC after the diode. analogue meters cannot read correctly as there is insufficient amps to power them and your reading will always be low.

The point of the most intense sound from the coils is the sweet spot and will give the brightest neon glow when the charge battery is not connected. Yes when the battery is connected this frequency may change a little as the impedance of the circuit has changed and you may need a small adjustment to the pot. Also as the battery goes up in voltage an adjustment may be needed especially if the charging battery was very low to begin with.

Don't drain your batteries below 11.5v

Sulfation of the batteries is the process by which sulfuric acid combines with lead during a discharge of a battery. Recharging reverses this process. If the sulfation is too thick, the battery cannot be charged as the resistance is too high. High voltage by itself may help a little in reversing this but pulsing can dislodge the sulfation exposing the unsulfated plates. Radiant pulses are especially good at reversing sulfation and dislodging heavy sulphation deposits. Now when we use a radiant charger to charge our batteries, normal sulfation is quickly reversed and heavy deposits do not get a chance to form.

If I have a badly sulfated battery I use a 24v input to charge a 12v battery because doubling the voltage doubles the voltage of the spike. Under ohms law we have 4 times the power because doubling the voltage doubles the amps and 2x2=4 so our fan has 4 times the capabilities. The radiant output of the fan does not necessarily have double the amps, as radiant does not have amps, these amps are a result of the transformer effect of the coils. I cave come to the conclusion that any amp output is spurious and don't even bother to take readings now.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:26 pm 
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Ok, I have recharged all four batteries with a normal charger under trickle charge. After waiting +- 4 hours after they were fully charged (did all at once in parallel) I measured their Voltage's.

A=13.49 B=13.48 C=13.33 D=13.65

So this means that they are still basically OK. They were bought new for this testing and have not been through any major long term usage, except for me abusing 2 of them. Seems that they too were not permanently damaged.

I will now drain 2 of the batteries down to 11.5V with incandescent globes, after which I will see how they fare in the SSG circuit with the remaining 2 fully charged batteries as the source batteries for each discharged battery respectively. I will then write the drain and gain of each pair.

After that, I will redrain a single battery and recharge 2 of the other batteries with standard trickle charge and use 24V as source with the drained battery as charging in the SSG circuit.

Since I have only been charging them with the SSG circuit so far, the AC pulses should have allowed desulphation. This might be less true in the two batteries I abused.

Due to a 'lucky' messup, I chose to use an electric variable drill to crank my gearbox, and while doing this, I spun the fan too fast and the casing distorted which broke the fan fins off the fan itself. This is quite good since now the motor has less 'wind resistance' or friction, and it spins faster than before with the same pot settings. This makes the dual battery method draw slightly less from the source battery.

I will post once I have some meaningful figures.

From the explanation you gave regarding the spurious nature of the amps, combined with the statement that a 24V source is fine for a 12V charging battery, I feel that there will not be any 'overcharging' occuring as can happen with conventional chargers.

I am still trying to find out what I can do by replacing the source battery with a capacitor to allow it to reach higher that 3.5V in the capacitor. Any info on this will be much appreciated.

I was and still am aware that the 'reading' I used on the charging wires without the battery connected were dubious to say the least, but they do raise as the motor slows and drop as the motor speed increases. In essence they are pretty close to highest reading when the chirping is loudest as well as when the globe glows at it's brightest. One good thing is that the '18V limit' I used is not needed to be observed. In other words a false reading of 40V or higher will not damage the 12V battery since the spike is actually AC with negligible amperage.

Keeping the Voltages above 11.5 should give me better and more consistant results.

Thank you for your explanations and your patience.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:20 am 
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overcharging is possible with the Bedini circuit, especially with gel type sealed batteries, this dries out the gel ruining the battery or cold boils the acid in a normal battery. Charge the battery to 14.4v or to the manufacturers specifications not more, these are printed on the side of some batteries. Liquid acid batteries can sometimes benefit from a cold boil situation but this is not the case with a gel battery as there is so little liquid in the gel that it dries out. My experience with gel batteries is that they do indeed dry out and fail prematurely on a radiant charger. you will hear many people talk about fluffy charges, in many of these cases it is because the gel is drying out. I only use liquid lead acid batteries now.

The pulses are DC not AC

I have taken the fan blades off a few fans and in all cases, yes, the rotor spins faster but there is no more mechanical power and no gain in charge efficiency. It is only useful if the fan does not quite have enough power to spin on a low voltage input.

If you only charge your batteries on a radiant charger you will notice a small increase in capacity and that they charge a little faster, an overunity effect. If you then use a normal charger this effect is lost. The radiant charge causes a change in the grain structure of the plates making smaller grains and a larger surface area of plate, the "brute force" of a normal charger causes larger grains reducing the surface area therefore a reduced capacity.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:11 pm 
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Sorry for the longe pause.... I was busy with all sorts of stuff.

I rewired a fan in an 'unusual way'

I used 5 wires and wound them cw then ccw on the 4 points as follows....
25 turns, then 20 turns, then 20 turns. In other words, I chose to wind them sequentially to add up to a total of 65 turns, but I wanted to see what the 'lag' would do to the output and efficiency.

With a 12v battery as source, if I just used 2 of the wires (left the other 3 disconnected), the motor ran and I reached a reading of +-30VAC. How I measured the voltage was in various ways. First with my meter directly (even though it does vary and is not clinically valid). Then I connected the charge battery wires to a cap. Then I rectified the two to dc with 4 diodes. The values were pretty close to the same in all 3 methods.

When using 4 of the wires, 2 on the primary coil and 2 on the secondary coil, I found very little difference.

When I placed the remaining wire on the primary coil, the motor ran faster and the charging voltage increased to 35VAC. Yet when I placed the 5th wire on the secondary coil, the motor ran slower and the VAC dropped to 25. Weird, I thought it would be the other way around.

Now here is a totally WEIRD thing that happened. I ran the circuit using 2 of the wires as per 'standard' bifilar winding, while I place the remaining 3 wires in series with only 1 end (the start) connected to the primary coil. The fan spun so fast that it warped the frame which disintegrated the fan fins!!! The charging voltage jumped up to 65VAC. Totally weird because the other end of the series coils is not connected to anything. It seems that it induces some kind of resonance within the 2 working wires that feeds back into the running and charging of the motor.

I found that when connected this way, I could reduce the source batteries voltage to +-2.4V to reach the same speed as the fan would run if it were not rewied as a standard fan motor with 12V. The charge voltage from 2.4V source battery was 16.4VAC.

Another wierd thing occurred, which I think is due to the sequential winding of the wires, but I can not say for sure, is that if I stop the fan, the coils chirp and by slight variance in turning, I could get them to sing at high pitch and volume to get the neon globe to glow brighter than when the motor was running. The bad part is that the coils heat up fairly rapidly and start melting the plastic after about 20 seconds.

This makes me think about using a cooling gas (possibly nitrogen) so that a non moving charger can be done. It seems the wiring lag allows the AC effect to take place. Some kind of oscillating inteference between the magnetic fields takes place.

Unfortunately I can not do any further experimenting, since I have since moved back to my place. (I was doing all that research etc. with a friend of mine.) I will start up my own stuff, but I am far from a city that sells electronic stuff.

Will let you know if anything useful crops up.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:35 am 
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Nice work, you have found what I did without needing to be prompted, slaving coils increases output but went one step further, you discovered an anomaly :mrgreen: . Leaving a coil open can increase spike voltage I only discovered this a few weeks ago by reading this http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/biftest.htm Very interesting isn't it. I'm not sure of the implications as yet as I haven't tested it.

Yes cooling becomes a real problem when you put so much power through the fan so you have to limit the power by limiting the voltage applied or by placing a second inductor in series with the power coil in the fan. Never use a resistor as these only give losses.

Singing is the coils self oscillating because they are in resonance. the changes in pitch are caused by the magnetic flux altering the resonant frequency.


There is one coil configuration I did not try yet on the fan and I think the results will be very good http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/bifvsbuk.htm Its the last one on the page. I believe it is the coil used on the lockridge device and aviso's electric car. I have looked through Tesla's patents and he has used it too. I think this is one of the keys to achieving our goal. We are one step closer.

I am working on the lockridge device and I think I have it solved but I need to build it to prove it, I will know in the next few months.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:32 am 
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I will look at the links you supplied, thanks.

Just to clarify, the heating of the fan coils in my tests only occurred when I stopped the fan. In other words the resonance occurs in a static state. So the sequential winding allows the emf to flow due to the lag that the current 'jumping' or 'progressing' to each next winding. However, if the battery is connected and the motor has not yet been started, there is no resonance. It only occurs after starting the motor and subsequently stopping it abruptly. Also it does not always give the static resonance. It has to stop at some specific region for the resonance to occur.

What I wanted to do but could not (will explain why in a moment) was to get the resonance by stopping the motor, then disconect the source battery to reconnect it again and see if it would resonate again. If that is the case, then it can be 'set' in the correct position and it would be a solid state generator which in turn would be simple to cool with nitrogen or alternatively with heat sink etc.

The reason why I can not stop the motor AND disconnect the battery at the same time is due to the fact that I only have one arm... lol, due to a motorcycle accident many years back.

Have you managed to get that static resonance in any of the motors you have run so far?

Also, if you watch the Bedini SSG Fan - Self-runner - 23 by plengo at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUKqRREK ... re=related
The title states SSG circuit, but he gives this url :- http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6519.0 which shows a different circuit. I am not sure what circuit he is using, but he has 3 meters running on 3 seperate batteries and if you go through his video's, you will find that he runs the motor consistantly for at least 7 hours straight and the readings remain constant. (Actually they increase slightly on two of the batteries.)

In his comments he writes that long term spike charging actually kills the batteries (as stated by Bedini as well) but it seems to be working.

Here is something I wish to try. I want to make an SSG motor that runs initially off a source battery, while it spins a second SSG motor that has a capacitor ibnstead of it's source battery with the amount of winds on the second motor being 15% more than those on the first motor. I wish to use the charging side of the second fan connected to a switch that once running, sends the charge to the source wires and disconnects the source battery on the first motor. In theory, since the fan takes 10% to run, the 15% extra winds should be able to provide enough to run the first one.

In my earlier experiments, I found that I was able to run a 12VDC brush motor (taken from an old tape deck) from the charging wires while using 2.4VDC as the source power supply. The motor did run slow, but it WAS faster than if I ran it directly from the 2.4V batteries. (2 x 1.2V rechargable AA batteries)

The reason I think two SSG motor setup will work is due to the fact that the torque to spin the SSG fan is very low, as opposed to the torque in a conventional generator. And YES, I ran the 12VDC motor with unrectified AC from the charging wires, NOT going through diodes to provide it with conventional DC.

I also found recently some other diagrams that are apparently 'standard' Bedini' stuff where one can add as many extra coils (in other words multiple wires), but they are each seperate systems with their own transistors and diodes, as opposed to putting them all in series as I did.

Soon, when I have the time and the patience, I will wind a motor with ten wires in sequential steps of 5 winds per stator. I intend to make the motor big enough to have a total of 200 winds, (So 200*10 wires would be 1000 winds if it were bifilar), just to see what happens if I run it with two of them with the other 8 in series with only start connected. Failing that I can think of LOTS of other stuff to test with a winding like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:11 am 
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When the fan is running you get a 50% duty cycle of pulses and 50% with no pulses, when you stop the fan you get 100% pulses resulting in double the power and this is why it got hot. My experience of getting resonance is the same as yours with one difference. I removed the rotor and the fan continued to resonate.

The best way to stop the heat is to reduce the power because as heat increases so does resistance and then you get more losses or build a bigger motor.

Sorry to hear about your loss, that must be frustrating. I have had a few mike accidents in my time but no major lasting damage to my self although I continue to ride a Virago.

My experience is that radiant charging dries out gel batteries causing them to fail but with old lead acid types I have had no problems.

That circuit is very interesting, I recommend you take a close look at it but you need to understand what is happening. This is very important and I cant make it more clear, work on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:46 am 
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Ok, you mentioned you also got the resonance and yours continued after removing the rotor. In mine, when I remove the rotor, the resonance stops. One other thing, did yours also only resonate after initially running? In other words I am trying to ascertain what exactly it is that allows the build up of radiant energy to 'accumulate', for want of a better word.

Before my motor spins, if I connect both the source battery and the charging battery, there is no resonace. Yet after running and stopping with a sudden stop, there is resonance. So in other words, the radiant energy gets 'formed' or 'collected' via emf and it then becomes a self substantiating and self regenerating system. Kind of like a for next infinite loop.

This reminds me to a certain extent on Wilhelm Reichs Orgone Accumulator. It seems that there are certain methods of coaxing or luring radient energy into one place. Following that train of thought, it would also be relevant that if one is running SSG motors, then the accumulation of radient energy would and does make ones area into a 'radient energy accumulator' area.

Here is sometething I propose.

It is an experiment. I am asking you to do it because at the moment I do not have my motors with me. Take ann SSG motor and place it in an out of the way place in a room. Get a small plant growing pot and place some soil in it. Plant a few seeds in said soil. Do a duplicate planting of the same soil and the same seeds in another area where no SSG motor is running. Water said plants while continually running the SSG motor. Do this for 1 month (obviously watering the soil etc.) and see if there is any significant growth difference.

This is in a sense duplication of an experiment that was done by Dan Winter with his 'Water Imploder'

If you are familiar with Wilhelm Reich's Orgone Accumulator and Dan Winter's Water Imploder, then you will easily be able to see how they are in fact harnessing the same energy source. Call it chi, call it Orgone, call it Prana, call it Life Force, call it Radient Energy.

Having brought that to your attention, it enables us to see that the primary constituant in all of the things that attract this energy, are the rotational energy fields that simulate the Fibonacci Spiral. The energy is only accumulated once we start the rotation sequence, yet after we stop the sequence, the radient energy persists.

If the SSG motor does have the same effect on the seeds as the 'alive water' from Dan's Water Imploder, then a running SSG motor beneath a pipe or tank of water, will in turn get the water to become a resonant energy accumulator.

Makes you think, doesn't it?

As far as my 'loss' goes... blah, blah. Nothing is ever lost, it is merely converted. In truth, I gained far, FAR more from 'losing' my arm than I could have had I never lost it. The gains are intangible but they are 'big' and they are many. The accident I had that 'cost' me my arm was in 1986 and it was the first of 3 major accidents. It was followed by another in 1996 in which I cracked open my skull and lost a few percent of my brain. It took me 6 months to re-arrange (conceptually and internally) my brain so I could relearn how to speak. And a year after that (1997) my third accident, in which I lost 60% of my skin. I still ride bikes.

I have looked at that circuit, but as far as electronics is concerned, I am still at the teething stage. I struggle a bit in understanding diagrams. I have found that they do at least make some sense now since I do at least know what most of the components do and how they interact. The part in all this that I enjoy most is the 'difficult to see' manner in which the radient energy behaves and is formed. There are 'rules' of behaviour that it follows, but those are not the electronic 'truths'. The radient energy is more a 'side effect' of the circuits and the key thing to focus on is that the electronics aspect is a tool we are using to reach methods of accumulating or harnessing the radient energy. In other words we are not focusing on Voltage, Amperes and Ohms. They are just the 'easy' ways of measuring the intangible yet accesable radient energy.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:10 am 
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To get the circuit oscillating without spinning the fan you can momentarily short the emitter and collector on the transistor. All you have to do is start the circuit oscillating and it no longer needs a magnet or motor however it can power the motor at no extra cost so we may as well have it.

I am starting to write a book on the next point you make and this paragraph from my writings explains it

"When an electron enters into a wire we create a negatively charged pole. By the Laws of attraction, anything positively charged will be attracted and anything negative will be repelled. When that electron leaves, the wire is for a moment, charged positively by what has been attracted and so the reverse law of attraction happens. It has been proven by experiment that some of this positive charge can be used to charge batteries and capacitors but yet little or no current flows. This is a second source of energy to be found in a pulsed coil. This must not be mistaken for the inductive kickback caused by the magnetic field collapse. Inductive kickback cannot be of a higher potential (voltage) than the power that created it. The higher voltage measured on inductive kickback is actually this second input. It is only momentary spike, "a transient", whereas the inductive kickback lasts a much longer period of time and has current. By creating very short pulses it has been found that these spikes have at least 97% of the energy that charged the coil when charging batteries. If the voltage of the charging battery is higher than the voltage pulsed into the coil, it cannot be the inductive kickback that is charging the battery. "

I have done little research on orgone, it may be radiant for all I know, the best person to ask as far as I know is sucahyo. He has done a lot of work in this area.

I hear what you are saying about your accident, I had a similar experience when I was in a car wreck. I broke all the bones in my legs, 3 months in hospital and a year off work and almost died; It gives you a new look on life.

I was giving you a big hint about that device, trust me I know something and that device isn't too far away. Its what you do with the energy and what you do with the byproducts.


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