It is currently Fri May 26, 2017 9:17 am



Welcome
Welcome to imhotep's labs

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:59 pm
Posts: 11
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 0 time
Hi Imhotep, thanks for all your work and technical advice/assistance.

in your video you suggest using the 'glowing' neon bulb to tune the motor for max output in the dark.

Am I right in thinking you had NO capacitor or battery connected on the output when you 'tune' with the neon?

Can you explain the purpose and actual methods used, to get the motor in resonance?

thanks!

_________________
"I say that if a TEN year old can do this and WIN, what the **** is wrong with the whole World?"

~ John Bedini ~ 8 Mar 2000 - http://www.keelynet.com/bedmot/bedmot.htm


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:11 pm 
Offline
Imhotep's Woman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:53 pm
Posts: 82
Has thanked: 1 time
Have thanks: 11 time
byjoveoldchap wrote:
Hi Imhotep, thanks for all your work and technical advice/assistance.

in your video you suggest using the 'glowing' neon bulb to tune the motor for max output in the dark.

Am I right in thinking you had NO capacitor or battery connected on the output when you 'tune' with the neon?

Can you explain the purpose and actual methods used, to get the motor in resonance?

thanks!



Correct because if you have a cap or battery hooked up the neon wont light. HTH

_________________
Image
http://www.imhotepslab.com

use link above to visit main site


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:48 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:25 am
Posts: 62
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 0 time
Shivas right, there needs to be no avenue of escape for the inductive spike (a.k.a battery or cap) and it has no choice but to use its potential to jump the gap inside the neon. This is an imperfect method of tuning, a scope is more preferable, but for those who dont have them this is one way to gauge the potential of the spike. Get a few neons, cause over time they degrade somewhat Ive found. The ones I had that flashed brilliant purple arent as vivid anymore, and can build up gunk/soot on the inside.

The design of the coil/circuit itself is what gets it into resonance, but it must be driven at the correct frequency in relation to the specs of your coil. The wheel/rotor does this somewhat automatically, but theres more to it than that. Also, I have found that the fans dont always behave the same way as the monopole does. JB specifies that there should be no magnetic substance on the rotor, I believe most fan rotors are made of steel/magnetic substance. Dont get me wrong, they are awesome, especially since you dont really need to build anything at all for them! My true monopole replications behave a little differently to my modified fan, but that is something for the indivdual to explore. Resonance is an amazing thing, something I will study for the rest of my life and still not know all there is to know. If you want to delve deeper into all things resonant look up LC circuits and study up on inductance and capacitance. The good doctor Tesla once said, "without resonance, electical engineering would be boring" (indirect quote but you get the jist of it :D ).


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:23 pm
Posts: 26
Has thanked: 5 time
Have thanks: 0 time
hi

I'm using a fan 24V 4W until now still can not satisfactorily charge anything, but so did some short experiments,

the behavior of neon is very strange, just give bright light when the glass is in contact with my hand sometimes provides bright light without being in contact with the finger, it usually happens in the initial moments when I plug in a battery to the output, to charge it first

if I connect a filament lamp to the output will have a decrease in fan speed and the lamp will light up, but I think this is the current conventional energy

conventional current goes too if you have a battery connected, how do I know if this is not enough current to charge the battery?

I'm using a variable resistor 10k OMH with the ammeter in the output and connected to a lead acid battery I could find that when I have the Resistance in 10k (maximum), the current entering the circuit is minimal, the current going to the "charge battery" is maxima, and the light maxima is also in neon, though the rotor speed is minimal

when the resistance is zero speed is minimal, in the neon light is minimal, and current to the "charge battery" is also minimal

however close to zero resistance, I found a level where the current output rose abrupt, in the neon light also rose this level is the maximum speed I think this is the optimal point then let thus regulated

with the maximum speed I perform experiments with 3 batteries would have told me if you think my fan is working properly and to produce radiant energy the results are as follows

Input voltage = 28.2V DC
input current = 138 mA AC

with a dead lead acid battery 6V
the initial battery voltage = 2.6V DC (I charged 2 times before this experience)
Output current = 1.45 mA ac
battery voltage = 9.44V DC

with a lead acid battery 12V
the initial battery voltage = 8.73V DC
Output current = 8.60 mA ac
battery voltage = 8.77V DC

with a 9 V alkaline battery
Initial voltage = 2.5V DC
Output current = 7.30 mA ac
battery voltage = 6.7V DC

I appreciate the help

thanks


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:10 am 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:48 pm
Posts: 1016
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 27 time
c_henriques « Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:27 am »
I built a "Bedini fan" seems to be working well, because charging the battery but so far not found any difference between energy output (radiant energy) and the conventional electric current created by the effect of Faraday's induction

Mbrownn
The combined output of the charged battery and the mechanical power is greater than the input.

c_henriques « Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:30 am »
since I can not verify if the "COP"is greater than 1, because I do not know how much power dissipated in the fan, could I suggest an experiment to verify that indeed the energy output is "radiant energy" and not just the tconventional Electrical Current?

mbrownn « Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:35 pm »
the current flow frm the fan to the charging battery isnt enough to charge it so it cannot be conventional current that is doing the charging. the power found in the charging battery must be comming frome somewhere and as it is not passing through the wire it has not been conducted. as far as we know it is not being covected because the battery can be sealed. the only other way it can get in the battery is radiation

Is the radiant appearing in the fan or the battery or both? It has been shown that you can light a neon on the fan and on the battery so it probably is both

The only other explanation is we are creating energy out of nothing and I doubt that

c_henriques « Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:17 am »
I'm using a fan 24V 4W until now still can not satisfactorily charge anything, but so did some short experiments, the behavior of neon is very strange, just give bright light when the glass is in contact with my hand sometimes provides bright light without being in contact with the finger, it usually happens in the initial moments when I plug in a battery to the output, to charge it first

if I connect a filament lamp to the output will have a decrease in fan speed and the lamp will light up, but I think this is the current conventional energy. conventional current goes too if you have a battery connected, how do I know if this is not enough current to charge the battery?

I'm using a variable resistor 10k OMH with the ammeter in the output and connected to a lead acid battery I could find that when I have the Resistance in 10k (maximum), the current entering the circuit is minimal, the current going to the "charge battery" is maxima, and the light maxima is also in neon, though the rotor speed is minimal

mbrownn
Your problem is you are not getting the fan tuned well enough. I think your pot resistance is too high to find the sweet spot. Replace your pot with a 500 or 1k one of high power.

c_henriques « Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:35 am »
when the resistance is zero speed is minimal, in the neon light is minimal, and current to the "charge battery" is also minimal; however close to zero resistance, I found a level where the current output rose abrupt, in the neon light also rose this level is the maximum speed I think this is the optimal point then let thus regulated.

mbrown
This is close to the sweet spot

c_henriques
with the maximum speed I perform experiments with 3 batteries would have told me if you think my fan is working properly and to produce radiant energy the results are as follows

Input voltage = 28.2V DC input current = 138 mA AC
with a dead lead acid battery 6V the initial battery voltage = 2.6V DC (I charged 2 times before this experience) Output current = 1.45 mA ac battery voltage = 9.44V DC

with a lead acid battery 12V
the initial battery voltage = 8.73V DC
Output current = 8.60 mA ac battery voltage = 8.77V DC
with a 9 V alkaline battery Initial voltage = 2.5V DC Output current = 7.30 mA ac battery voltage = 6.7V DC

Tuning the fan is simple but counter intuitive to some extent. More power in does not mean more power out. Less power in does not mean more power out, There is a sweet spot.

Start the fan with a low resistance, it will run strongly but have little charging power. As you increase the resistance you will notice the volts on the charging battery rise, the motor slow and the amp draw fall. At one point you will reach a peek in the charging voltage. You are close to the sweet spot, if you increase the resistance further your current draw will fall, the battery charge will fall and the fan may stop. Also in the range of the sweet spot you will notice the fan making a strange noise, this is the coils singing.

Switch off the fan and measure the pot resistance. Replace the pot with a resistor of slightly lower resistance and place a new, lower resistance pot, in series with it. It will need to be a high power pot or it may burn out.

Now restart the fan and readjust until you have the highest charge voltage and the coils singing. That’s it.

As the battery charges its internal impedance will lower and you may need to adjust your pot to keep the fan on the sweet spot.

To adjust the fan with no charging battery you must have a neon lamp connected across the transistor. You simply adjust the pot until the neon is at its brightest. It may even turn purple or white. Be careful because if the neon fails you will most likely burn out your transistor.

The neon will not usually light up if a charging battery is connected.

Expect your fan to run at about 1/3 of its designed speed.

Measuring amps on the output is not really helpful. Radiant has no amps, any amps you read will be either back EMF or the transformer effect of the coils.

Be aware that digital meters often give spurious readings on pulsed DC, especially on the amp scales. When measuring the voltage across a battery or capacitor they are usually ok as the pulsed DC will drop to close to the stored voltage.

Sometimes the motor will stop but the coils are still singing and the battery is still charging. This is when the power to the coils is ideal for charging but too low to make the fan run. You can often stop the fan and cause this to happen. This is a condition where you now have a solid state oscillator.

Don’t be tempted to remove the fan blades, the fan may run faster but there is no increase in pulse rate and therefore no increase in charge. When the coils are singing they are in resonance and pulsing at their maximum rate.

To increase output, just increase the input voltage and retune but beware of the limits of your fan and transistor.

Hope this answers you questions


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:23 pm
Posts: 26
Has thanked: 5 time
Have thanks: 0 time
hi mbrown,

I am deeply grateful for your response was very detailed and explanatory

now I realized I was wrong to consider the sweet point, I was using little resistance and the fan was running too fast

my variable resistance has a good accuracy because it takes 10 laps to go from one end to the other of the resistance

I now use two variable resistors in series each one 10k
now I can have the coils singing, usually sing more intensely with the resistance close to 10k

also realized why my neon only worked if I touched it with my fingers,

I do not know if the peaks of the "back emf" are not intense enough to make the neon glow, or if the problem is the neon, but to put a wire from one terminal going to the glass neon gotten it to work well, I think

during these days I have been to condition 3 "sealed acid battery" (I know they are not quite suitable, but that's what I have now) and it seems to me they have been carrying ever more

a doubt occurred to me
if the timing is important for storing energy, and how Bedini uses with heavy flywheels, this Bedini fan to be better attuned not need to have a flyweel coupled to the rotor?

Another problem I've had
I've tried every way but I can not have a solid state oscillator, where the rotor to stop my hands neon stops flashing and the coils stop singing
as it is possible to have the coils even singing with the rotor stopped?

thanks


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:44 am
Posts: 397
Has thanked: 6 time
Have thanks: 12 time
c_henriques wrote:
also realized why my neon only worked if I touched it with my fingers,
When I first found this, I wonder why no one interested to investigate it more.

I now found that non grounded water, water in plastic bucket, will give Bedini circuit more output power than earth ground. On open circuit output, the increase of voltage can be three times higher.

c_henriques wrote:
if the timing is important for storing energy, and how Bedini uses with heavy flywheels, this Bedini fan to be better attuned not need to have a flyweel coupled to the rotor?
Recent Bedini ferris wheel use very slow speed. Bedini also mention faster is not the objective.


c_henriques wrote:
I've tried every way but I can not have a solid state oscillator, where the rotor to stop my hands neon stops flashing and the coils stop singing as it is possible to have the coils even singing with the rotor stopped?
Use different Bedini circuit variant. Some people use joule thief, some timer base. I use stingo.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:58 am 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:48 pm
Posts: 1016
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 27 time
I think of the circuit like this;

We create a dipole and at the moment the dipole is created, the radiant floods into the system with equal quantity and opposite charge but much higher pressure, to balance the system. Because the pressure is much higher we see a spike.

If we leave the dipole in this condition, the radiant flow disappears as the system is balanced.

If we discharge the system, the radiant will flood out at the same time to keep the balance of the system.

Because its pressure (voltage) is much higher than our source we are able to collect it as it flows, but only as it flows, so we have to keep creating and destroying the dipole to maintain the flow. Therefore it is a pump in effect just like an air-conditioning unit.

Our charge is electron flow, it’s big, heavy and slow at accelerating like a train. Natures charge is small light and busily rushing in and out like the passengers in the train station.

Our charge needs a track to flow on just like the train, the radiant does not need the track to flow but will use it if it is there.

The off position of the circuit is like the train arriving in the station with the doors closed. At the moment the circuit is made, or broken, the passengers (radiant) are able to get on and off the train.

The moment the train moves (current flows), the passengers (radiant) stop getting off and on the train (Circuit)

The train station is the switch, so as the passengers are trying to get out or in the station through the entrance (the switch contacts), they will always look for an easier route. Neon bulbs, fingers, dielectric materials etc. are in effect the short cut in and out of the station.

EMF is the energy we use to accelerate the train, the deceleration or breaking is the back EMF

I hope this helps you to understand what I believe is radiants nature and how the circuit is working.

Do you think this helps sucahyo? If not ill delete it.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:44 am
Posts: 397
Has thanked: 6 time
Have thanks: 12 time
I think it is good. In fact Bedini confirm it:
http://www.energeticforum.com/126926-post888.html
Quote:
The reason for the low current is allow for the highest possible Radiant Energy that is found in all space that surrounds you, some call it, Radiant, negative energy, special charges and so on, but it's all the same thing. This energy is scattered vectors pointing everywhere thought-out space.

To gather this energy you must build a pump for it. The Coils seem to fit the bill here as you can pump them. It does not take allot of power to do this just potential charge. Most batteries developed currents inside them, The first effect of this is the potentializing of the ions this causes the Ions to move the other direction as it does not take current to do this, just potential (Voltage). The Bedini GT3 machine is much different as the energy is stored in a capacitor to be discharged when the voltage is at max potential ( this is real current in amperes) to the second battery bank.

The machine does not use allot of current to do this as it is triggered out of the coil that drives the rotation of the wheel. The wheel must just rotate to cause the switching to gather this energy. The original SG machine is self triggered and is a fixed timing so that you can see the effect of Negative energy in the spike, that is then directed to the secondary battery to perform charging with impulse spikes, the power is in the spike to move the Ions in the battery.

The spike is self adjusting to the battery being used as the rotor changes speed to adjust for the battery. This is known as time charging. The SG can be looked at as a self rotating Magneto Energizer, high voltage output. Some of the effects of this is desulphation of bad batteries as it will bring them back to life if the battery is not shorted. You could look at this like a window that is covered with dirt, not a good view. The process cleans the window, now Ions can move in charge mode as the battery develops it's own current inside to charge. "Hope This Helps"

John B


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning the Motor using the Neon Bulb
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:38 am 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:48 pm
Posts: 1016
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 27 time
exactly


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
suspicion-preferred